[Spook]

Kilkenny for me.

[andy]

on present form i would pick killa.hes fought his way back in to the team and played suerbly for us

[Stylish Kid In The Riot]

Spook, on 21 November 2009 - 06:25 PM, said:

Kilkenny for me.

Based on what - a couple of games? Are you lot being serious? Jonny has played brilliantly all season and you want to replace him because Killa had a good game against one of the poorest teams I've seen? You make me laugh.

Went to Brighton today and Killa was outstanding, but so too were all the midfield, including Jonny who did a great job as captain. Why is the decision Killa v Jonny anyway? Have we wrongly decided that Jonny is the weakest player in our midfield? If anyone, it's Snoddy. The lads brilliant when he's on-form, but on his off days he contributes very little.

[The Duke]

pfft.. you shoudn't have put ''both'' in... obviously you would have both, but now you've given an option for those who cant be bothered to think! HOWSON anyday! (not that i dont like killa... but, howson edges it on the fact hes sexy and is a home grown leeds supporter)

[tommy_v]

i went both. think the honeymoon period is over for doyle and time for someone else to have a go. i think howson and kilkenny would do wonders in midfield with snoddy and johnson running off them

[Stylish Kid In The Riot]

tommy_v, on 22 November 2009 - 10:47 AM, said:

i went both. think the honeymoon period is over for doyle and time for someone else to have a go. i think howson and kilkenny would do wonders in midfield with snoddy and johnson running off them

I think someone's overlooked Doyle's defensive contribution. He may not be scoring or creating like the rest are, but it's because of him holding back and getting in with the tackles that the rest can wander off and take pot-shots at the opposition.

Why change something that isn't broke? Killa is an excellent option for us, but the midfield works and has done all season.

[Osama Ben Laden]

Kilkenny and Howson for me Howsons a class act and when Kilkenny wants to be he is the best passers of a ball in the league.

[Spook]

The Duke, on 22 November 2009 - 02:29 AM, said:

pfft.. you shoudn't have put ''both'' in... obviously you would have both, but now you've given an option for those who cant be bothered to think! HOWSON anyday! (not that i dont like killa... but, howson edges it on the fact hes sexy and is a home grown leeds supporter)

I put "both" in as an option - but I wouldn't have them both in the team: certainly not as a preferred option. Doyle may not be a worldbeater but I reckon he's essential, in terms of breaking things up and allowing the rest of the team to play.

For me, it would be Doyle + either Howson or Kilkenny.

[Spook]

Quote

Why change something that isn't broke? Killa is an excellent option for us, but the midfield works and has done all season.

It's difficult to criticise anyone in the current set up, given our position in the table. However, for what it's worth, I don't entirely agree with you, Milky.

I think the main reason for our success this season is our mean defence - and the fact that we have so many players capable of nicking us a goal, at the other end. I don't see our midfield as one of our main strengths.

I also wouldn't agree that Kilkenny has only done well over "a couple of games". His form at the end of last season was excellent - and this season, he's fought his way back into the team following injury. Seems to me, he's made a real impact off the bench and done well on his recent starts; especially on Saturday - when, by all accounts, he was MOTM.

As for Howson, I've just never really understood what the fuss was about. I know you go to more games than me, Milky - but I've been to a fair few at home this season - and seen all of the televised ones: just don't get these "he's a class act" and he's "played brilliantly all season" comments. I'm not saying I don't like him - but, for me, he goes missing too often in games, especially when the chips are down. On his day, he can look good (at League 1 level) but he just doesn't do it consistently enough for my liking. And it's interesting that - if he is such a "class act" - there haven't been more highter tier clubs sniffing round him?

[Stylish Kid In The Riot]

Spook, on 22 November 2009 - 11:47 PM, said:

It's difficult to criticise anyone in the current set up, given our position in the table. However, for what it's worth, I don't entirely agree with you, Milky.

I think the main reason for our success this season is our mean defence - and the fact that we have so many players capable of nicking us a goal, at the other end. I don't see our midfield as one of our main strengths.

I also wouldn't agree that Kilkenny has only done well over "a couple of games". His form at the end of last season was excellent - and this season, he's fought his way back into the team following injury. Seems to me, he's made a real impact off the bench and done well on his recent starts; especially on Saturday - when, by all accounts, he was MOTM.

As for Howson, I've just never really understood what the fuss was about. I know you go to more games than me, Milky - but I've been to a fair few at home this season - and seen all of the televised ones: just don't get these "he's a class act" and he's "played brilliantly all season" comments. I'm not saying I don't like him - but, for me, he goes missing too often in games, especially when the chips are down. On his day, he can look good (at League 1 level) but he just doesn't do it consistently enough for my liking. And it's interesting that - if he is such a "class act" - there haven't been more highter tier clubs sniffing round him?

It seems you're putting Howson in the same boat as many put Doyle. Few seem to realise that without Doyle and Howson holding back and strengthening the defence (which is a big part of why our defence is so strong!) Snoddy and Johnson wouldn't have the room to roam that they have enjoyed so far this term.

As an out and out replacement for Snoddy or Johnson, Kilkenny fits the bill, but he's nowhere near good enough in the tackle to replace Howson or Doyle. Centre-midfield is a different game entirely to the wings. Maybe I appreciate it more because it's where I played at various levels, but a lot of your role is to sure up the defence which the Doyle-Howson partnership has done superbly well - as well as provided for the frontmen!

[Spook]

Stylish Kid In The Riot, on 22 November 2009 - 11:07 PM, said:

It seems you're putting Howson in the same boat as many put Doyle. Few seem to realise that without Doyle and Howson holding back and strengthening the defence (which is a big part of why our defence is so strong!) Snoddy and Johnson wouldn't have the room to roam that they have enjoyed so far this term.

As an out and out replacement for Snoddy or Johnson, Kilkenny fits the bill, but he's nowhere near good enough in the tackle to replace Howson or Doyle. Centre-midfield is a different game entirely to the wings. Maybe I appreciate it more because it's where I played at various levels, but a lot of your role is to sure up the defence which the Doyle-Howson partnership has done superbly well - as well as provided for the frontmen!

My problem is: I don't really see where Howson excells. He seems tidy enough but, for me, doesn't have one particular strength. It's interesting that you see him as a defensive midfielder, alongside Doyle: I'd always seen him more as an attacking midfielder.

What would you say is/ are his particular strength/ strengths?

I'd say he reads the game reasonably well, at this level, but rarely takes it by the scruff of the neck. Has ok pace but nothing exceptional: ditto in terms of pace, tackling, passing, goalscoring.

[loftyleeds]

I dont rate Doyle at all and his performances have not impressed me. I would sooner play Killa and Jonny but let Jonny assume the role of defensive midfielder. Im sure he would be up to it.

[Spook]

loftyleeds, on 23 November 2009 - 09:39 AM, said:

I dont rate Doyle at all and his performances have not impressed me. I would sooner play Killa and Jonny but let Jonny assume the role of defensive midfielder. Im sure he would be up to it.

We need someone alongside either Killa or Howson - and Doyle is the man. Like Douglas before him: not everyone's favourite but does a necessary job.

[Stylish Kid In The Riot]

Spook, on 23 November 2009 - 01:26 AM, said:

My problem is: I don't really see where Howson excells. He seems tidy enough but, for me, doesn't have one particular strength. It's interesting that you see him as a defensive midfielder, alongside Doyle: I'd always seen him more as an attacking midfielder.

What would you say is/ are his particular strength/ strengths?

I'd say he reads the game reasonably well, at this level, but rarely takes it by the scruff of the neck. Has ok pace but nothing exceptional: ditto in terms of pace, tackling, passing, goalscoring.

I think he's a good all-round player which the rest aren't, and that's the key to central mid.

Killa - too lightweight for the centre. Defensive contribution usually non-existant.

Doyle - Great defensively and a good passer of the ball. Workman-like player.

Snoddy - Best attacking midfielder we've had since Delph, but again pretty weak defensively. He does play on the wing though so not as important.

Johnson - Similar to Snoddy, which is why he's on the other wing.

Jonny doesn't excel defensively like Doyle, but does contibute well and gives the wingers room to move. Not as great going forward as Snoddy or Johnson, but can contribute here as well. Essentially, he's an all-round player that can play both ends of the pitch. He isn't the best in any particular area, but he does them all well.

Putting Killa in, in place of either central midfielder would be a mistake in my opinion. Next time you watch Leeds, you'll notice Jonny and Doyle are providing a lot of support to the centre backs that was missing last season. That's the major difference for me, alongside Kis and a new self-belief in our other defenders.

[Osama Ben Laden]

Stylish Kid In The Riot, on 23 November 2009 - 10:15 PM, said:

I think he's a good all-round player which the rest aren't, and that's the key to central mid.

Killa - too lightweight for the centre. Defensive contribution usually non-existant.

Doyle - Great defensively and a good passer of the ball. Workman-like player.

Snoddy - Best attacking midfielder we've had since Delph, but again pretty weak defensively. He does play on the wing though so not as important.

Johnson - Similar to Snoddy, which is why he's on the other wing.

Jonny doesn't excel defensively like Doyle, but does contibute well and gives the wingers room to move. Not as great going forward as Snoddy or Johnson, but can contribute here as well. Essentially, he's an all-round player that can play both ends of the pitch. He isn't the best in any particular area, but he does them all well.

Putting Killa in, in place of either central midfielder would be a mistake in my opinion. Next time you watch Leeds, you'll notice Jonny and Doyle are providing a lot of support to the centre backs that was missing last season. That's the major difference for me, alongside Kis and a new self-belief in our other defenders.

I know where your coming from with Killa being too lightweight but when hes on his day he produces some defence cutting passes that doyle could never provide. But fair enough, they are different players who both have qualaties whereas Howson is just a class act. But i disagree with what youve said about Snoddy, the guy gives 100% every match despite not being the most technichally gifted player and always is willing to get stuck in as is Johnson